CSS tears and frustration
CSS seems to be cool and we can’t afford to not use it for everything. But I must confess: CSS sucks. Sure, it is great and light and easy to use and everything and I understand why I can never go back to tables. But man, what a nightmare to build something simple, and make it look good cross browser and cross platform.
When I started with the Fleck.com design in Photoshop I decided to do something very simple. Just a few blocks and then 3 cells and maybe a floating logo or 2. Nothing too complicated.
It is now a week later and we have tried over 20 different variations of CSS code tricks and hacks. I googled and googled and tested and tested and NOTHING works! Once I get the boxes aligned the logo disappears. Once the Logo is back the boxes stop aligning. I was just staring at my test PC and just felt overwhelmed with anger and frustration. Every solution seems to introduce a new set of problems.
And I thought I was starting with something simple! If I would have done it the old fashioned way I would have finished the design within a few hours. Now I have been staring at the damn code for days and had several people looking over my shoulders to try stuff. It just isn’t working.
So now I have to decide: use tables for some stuff, forget the whole CSS or persevere and try to do it all in CSS after all but spend another week on getting everything aligned.
I haven’t made up my mind yet so first I’m gonna cry for a little while…
Jeroen Mulder said,
February 13, 2006 @ 5:39 am
Or set your pride aside and ask for help. We’re here and I’d be happy to help you a hand. I’ve been there a long time ago as well and even though I never experienced as badly as you described, I try to save others from the same frustration.
Robert said,
February 13, 2006 @ 6:31 am
So whatever the hell Fleck is, it’s not relying on CSS?
Edd said,
February 13, 2006 @ 11:06 am
I’m with Jeroen here, lots of people are willing to help including myself. And CSS does not suck, it just takes some learning. Once you’ve got the hang of it you’ll realise how beautifully powerful it is. Why not post some code for the site and see if we can help? Maybe it’s time to let the cat out the bag..
Maaike said,
February 13, 2006 @ 2:03 pm
I feel your pain, but please, keep trying! Remember: the harder it is to accomplish something, the bigger the satisfaction when you succeed
Boris Veldhuijzen van Zanten said,
February 13, 2006 @ 2:06 pm
Sometimes just complaining out loud simply helps! After this post I threw all my code away and started out fresh. Within an hour I had everything working as it should and we are making great progress now. Thanks for all the moral support!
David Petherick said,
February 15, 2006 @ 8:52 am
Boris, it pays to complain! Especially in public.
I can’t access preople.com as you’re busy upgrading, so please, pass a big hug and kiss to your lovely sister, and wish her a HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
- David Petherick
Christian Montoya said,
February 18, 2006 @ 2:52 pm
You need to learn CSS if you want to use it… but do learn it! Layout tables will really kill the performance of your sites.
Send all your CSS questions to http://www.css-discuss.org/ (that’s the CSS-Discuss list) and you’ll get answers, and more importantly, help!
If you are still stumped, hire an expert (like me)… but I’m sure you can learn.
Anonymous said,
February 20, 2006 @ 10:19 am
Ignore the previous comments - CSS is essential for cool formatting, but it sucks for multi-column layouts (unless you use horrid fixed-width columns like this blog).
1) If your Web page looks like a multi-column table, especially if there are more than three columns, use tables for the layout and CSS for everything else.
2) Override the default browser caching on your CSS and Javascript files, so that they’ll reload whenever a user logs on.
3) To make CSS less of a “write only language”, you need to be very careful when chosing style names. For example, when a style applies to a specific XHTML tag, e.g. TD or TR, include this in the style name.
- giafly
cmm said,
February 21, 2006 @ 3:47 pm
giafly: O rly?
Fleck: ignore the previous comment.
Anonymous said,
February 22, 2006 @ 3:14 am
my god. i agree. css sucks when it’s 100% the full meal deal.
i’ve been using all this web marlarkey for quite some time now. I know css very well and have created many large sites with it - but have created even more with tables, css, divs, etc - basically whatever works. I’m now in a job that must be completely css/divs and it is so frustrating and constraining. What a waste. More time goes into hacks and accessibility than creating a site that people will use. So what if css saves you 2 seconds on download time - if it’s shit, no one will come. In the fast moving world of the web, I say do first, ask second. Reasons for doing 100% pure css are, “google likes it better” - crap. “do it for accessiblity, for blind people!” - who gives a shit!, and “speed and semantic code” - big deal.
i say everyone get over yourself and your semantic code and start creating better, more usable, and beautiful sites.
as the web converges with traditional media (i work for a huge TV production company) we need richer user experiences. and why the concern over making your site quicker (using css over tables) when we live in a world of faster bandwidth? 2 seconds was a lot 4 years ago, but come on.
css allows you to repurpose content, use blocks and divs throughout different pages layouts and essentially manage everything smoothly through code. but let me ask you - how big is your css file you load onto every page? are you managing your css properly or is it just a big mess? how often to you utilize css in a way that you’re changing display, content types, and layout throughout your site? or are you just coding in divs and aligning them just like tables & cells?
oh yes, and how does your site look? what kind of traffic do you have? do people actually use your site? and why do you think all the web 2.0 sites have the clean, text-based, gradient look that they have? hmm.
sorry for the rant. i code in css all day and design, but i’m telling you i think accessibility is a joke and the reliance on semantic css is completely worthless.
i say we all create beautiful - *highly used* sites that concentrate more on user experience than elegant code.
long live old school html and tables!
hmm.